This blog covers hiking, biking, geocaching, kitchen remodel, some programming (no tips), and work.
Friday, December 24, 2010
Sycamore Canyon Hike - after days of rain
Sunday, December 19, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, Complete
Thursday, December 2, 2010
Ergo keyboard follow up
Kitchen Remodel, D-Day +32
Sunday, November 28, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D-Day +28
Saturday, November 27, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D Day +27
Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
Wednesday, November 24, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D-Day +23
Saturday, November 20, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D Day +20
Yesterday evening we put down some sheet plastic and ram board to have a clean place to walk on. That worked out well. But it was taken down this morning to keep it clean for later reuse.
The washer and drier are working out really good in their closet. With the doors closed, it does muffle the sound quite a bit.
Friday, November 19, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D Day +19
It's Friday and this is where we are. The mill work (baseboard molding) is in, good and beefy mdf; the trim around the doors is in, equally beefy and looks good; doors to close off the laundry area are in and the trim is installed around that door too. The washer and drier were removed from the laundry area to allow space for the guys to work. Both of us were running out of clean clothes so this evening, we put the washer and drier back. Using the hand truck / dolly made it much easier. We should get one.
Before moving the washer / drier, we discovered with all the moving of stuff that the hot water faucet (that the washer hose connects to) was leaking from the top. So, it was a trip to Lowes and get two new ones. Got another plumbing toilet thing while in the plumbing area. Back to the faucets, seems like I did not wrap enough white plumbers tape around the threads and it leaked, one drip on the hot and several on the cold. Wonderful, great, just what I needed. So, back outside, turn off the water main, remove both hot and cold faucets, and rewrap with ample white plumbers tape, at least 7 or 8 turns worth, then, back outside, turn on the main, run back in and check for leaks. There were none, yay,
With new faucets installed, the drier was moved first, then the washer. No big deal, it all fit very well. And the best part is when the doors are closed, it really cuts down on the noise - a lot. Funny thing, the two secondary things was wanted (lighting and a laundry area closet) were done first. Laid down plastic sheeting and some additional ram board to give us a clean path to walk and for the dogs to use the doggy door. There was some other random stuff to put in the trash and some sweeping, not a big deal.
The painter may be here tomorrow (Saturday) don't know for sure. Thinking next week the cabinets will be going in.
Wednesday, November 17, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D Day +17
Very busy day today. The drywall guy showed up to spray the texture and the cabinets arrived. The cabinets came first. It took the unloaders several trips to get it all unloaded. By the time I got home, they were all unloaded and staged in the family room. It's like a small maze in there. There are many boxes.
The drywall guy arrived and got his gear all unloaded, this was about 1 pm. He got done and was out of here a little after 4. The bare walls have been textured and look great. Mother Nature is giving us cool (moist) weather so I got the space heater in that room to offset the cool. Hopefully it will work.
Tomorrow we hope the millwork (baseboards) will be installed and the laundry room door + jam installation (one piece). They are planning on painting as soon as possible.
Our washer and drier are not connected. We will not have these for maybe 2 days?
Monday, November 15, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D-Day +15
Around noon was the first answer and shrugged shoulders for the second answer.
Off Roxy, Randi and myself to Ojai to spend the morning. We went for a walk along that bike / walking path, came back, got them some water. After a cool off, offered dog food kibbles. Only Roxy wanted some, Randi did not. So, back in the car and we drove to a lookout place along the 150, the same place of where and what I have on my desktop (a picture of the Ojai mountains). Enough time passed so we headed back to Ventura, Mc'Dee's for a coffee and two hash browns, then to Marina Park to hang out a bit. Then to watch the boats at the harbor. It was about 11:45 so we headed back slowly home.
To our surprise, the framer was here! He was about 2/3 the way done and kept on charging forward. About 1:15 he was all wrapped up, cleaned up, and he took off. The drywall people will be back tomorrow to drywall that in. If they can get that done and apply the orange peel texture to the walls, it is possible painting can happen by the end of the week. That would be great.
Roxy and Randi go to boarding tomorrow. I don't mind the doggy slobber on the car windows.
Sunday, November 14, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D-Day +13
I suppose there was work done yesterday. The plywood under the washer and drier was removed and replaced. I'm not sure if it will be good enough for the flooring guy. I wanted a separate piece for the washer and drier. This means there is a gap between the two plywood pieces. It's not a big deal to make a correction on that. It will wait until the flooring guy takes a look and we get closer to that event. I've got extra plywood and the washer/drier will need to be moved anyway.
By the end of this coming week, I think this is what will happen: drywall is mudded / sanded; washer and drier will be framed in, having doors installed would be a plus. That is all I can think of. The cabinets might be in and those will be stored here.
Thursday, November 11, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D-Day +11
Started a little after 8 am this Veterans Day morning. Once the nailing was done, I turned to part two of the day. Part two is to get the needed pieces cut to go by the sliding glass door and for the washer and drier area. Thought it best to remove the pieces that the washer and drier are removed and replace with new. So, with these pieces cut, the weekend work go much quicker. I did not do the "dog room" - yet. That is more cutting.
During these plywood cutting adventures, I've utilized the "snap a chalk line" method to give a straight line the full 8 feet of a sheet. Works out fairly well. In other news, tomorrow we hope that the city inspector will be coming by to inspect the nailing of the drywall. Then, they can seal and mud this. Then it will be very dusty for awhile. The sheet plastic with zipper door seems to be working fairly well.
My circular saw needs a new blade.
Wednesday, November 10, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D-Day +10
Monday, November 8, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D-Day +8
Significant progress today. The demo guy came and got serious about removing plaster, from floor to ceiling. In come cases, there was drywall on top of plaster. The big thing that bothered me was the show stopper, that darn floor. It needed 1/2 inch sheet plywood (previous blog said 3/8). So, the project manager lent me his V8 Nissan and off I went for 7 sheets.
Sunday, November 7, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D Day +7
It's Sunday. Last week Sunday, it was day before demolition. Since that time, the cabinets are gone, the Pergo floor is gone, the kitchen floor is gone (down to the 2x6's). Tomorrow it is hoped that the Project Manager (construction supervisor) will show up with 7 sheets of 3/8 plywood.
Saturday, November 6, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D Day +6
Here we are, D Day +6, its Saturday. I woke up, had my bowl of cereal. There were some issues with the remodel place as to who will remove the old plywood floor, 3/8's sheet. So, I took the bull by the horns, grabbed two hammers, screwdriver, pick axe, and later a pry-bar and got to work. You know the space is only about a 12 by 12.
About 2 hours later, the old plywood floor was gone and all left was to get it all swept, final nail removal and vacuumed up clean. The time was just about noon. Started a little after 7, done by 12. Not too bad for an old guy. The two brown tarps I washed again and re-layed them down on the actual floor. Called the Project Manager, let him know the status.
Phew, my clothes were soaking wet with sweat and I sweated so much I got some dehydration effects. So, I'm watering up now.
Friday, November 5, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D Day +5
It was a good thing to check the water heater, yup, when the plumber turned off the gas to move the line, he did not check water heater pilot light. So, it is a good thing it was checked. Else, I'd be outside in my underware at 9 pm trying to get that darn thing lit. Good news is it has a one of those electric starters so no open flame was needed.
The next discussion will be the demolition of the old kitchen floor. That seems to be the next issue at hand.
Thursday, November 4, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D-Day +4
Demolition day happened on Monday. It went pretty well. The guys moved the stove in the garage for storage and the refrigerator
is in the living room with it's friend the microwave. Not a lot of cooking going on for the next month that is for sure.
So here we are, at +4. We'll start from the floor and work our way up.
The floor is down to the plywood the layer above the sub-floor. The walls in the family room are intact, no changes to that room other than additional lighting that we could not afford way back then. More later. The walls in the kitchen have many holes, large gaping holes. Electricians ran new power, lots of new power on on two dedicated circuits (breakers). The kitchen ceiling has had five can lights installed - a rough install. The old fixture is gone, so there is a hole there, and where the fixture in the family room over where the table goes, that is gone too. The best part of this are those five new can lights in the family room. They are in and they work great. Put out lots of light and will meet our needs for the future.
Back to electrical, they are installing those GFI electrical fixures (plugs). This is a welcome improvement. The plumber was here yesterday and did some initial work though the kitchen water lines will be squared away and improved, modernized.
No post for days, 1-3, way too tired.
Sunday, October 31, 2010
Kitchen Remodel, D-Day -1
And we reach a time of home ownership where it is time (or past time) to remodel the kitchen. Having lived in the house for nearly 20 years, the kitchen was in fairly good shape when we moved in. It offered ample storage and was a big change from apartment living and duplex living, plus it is ours. Well, it's time to get a new kitchen with modern cabinets, LED lighting, a hood over the stove, nice counter top and stainless steel sink. This is all just weeks away.
So here we are, demolition day - 1, meaning, tomorrow the guys show up to remove the cabinets, move the stove in the garage, and the refrigerator to the living room which is now our kitchen. Each cabinet has been emptied, the pantries are bare. All nick-nacks removed. Even in the family room which had the big tv, DVR, filing cabinets, work area, modem, router, lamps, dinner table, futon, pictures on the walls, it's all stored away for the month.
Tonight I'm typing this from the bare family room looking at a kitchen that will be gone tomorrow. The typing on the computer keys echo's in this room. It is that bare. It starts at 8:00 tomorrow morning.
Addition to this post, the photo shows how the kitchen looks after demolition.
Ok, I tried something different
Wednesday, October 27, 2010
Daily morning routine
Wednesday, October 13, 2010
Upper Sycamore Canyon Trail to Sycamore Canyon Fire Road
Total distance is 4.38 miles. I chose this because I've never been on the Upper Sycamore Canyon Trail, though have been on the Sycamore Canyon Fire Road. The Fire Road is a well paved road that is popular downhill with cyclists. The Fire Road descends fairly steeply to a steel and wooden bridge spanning the seasonal river bed. Once past the bridge, I took the left turn onto the Upper Sycamore Canyon Trail. Going straight will bring you to a Ranger Cabin and eventually to the beach. So, taking that left turn, the Upper Sycamore Canyon Trail follows the seasonal river bed and winds its way on a gentle upslope. On thing in particular interest is a iron pipe that follows the seasonal river bed. It seems to be in good shape and intact. It got me wondering of the difficulty it was laying that pipe, from point A to point B along the riverbed, as straight as it is.
Saturday, October 9, 2010
Fun with Netbeans

Netbeans is a GUI tool used to write Java programs. Every now and then I like to dabble in Java, writing small programs to improve my Java knowledge. For the past couple of day's I've been thinking that I need to dust off my Java and write something that is useful, relevant, and instructional.
Wednesday, October 6, 2010
JAVA and MySQL
Wednesday, September 29, 2010
The Three Kauai Hikes
Overall, my mission was accomplished. Set out to hike these three trails and no one got hurt. The two conditioning hikes (La Jolla Valley and Chumash Trail) were actually not enough. There should have been more of these. Lung capacity and upper body strength are essential when there is climbing involved. A good core and not too much overall weight would be helpful too. The gear I brought along worked out well, no changes needed there. GPS is handy, advance planning is a good thing. I chose to take pictures on the way back, not on the way in. That worked out ok. On some trails expect not to have any cell phone coverage at all. Be careful, if your unable to walk, you will be stuck until someone comes along, plus the time needed to either hobble to safety or to a clearing for a helicopter. Either of those could be miles away and not a good thing. Leave early so you have the rest of the day to enjoy. Be safe and don't take risks.
Hanakapiai Trail
This is both a well known and a very popular trail on Kauai. What made this appealing to me was, I had never done this and many others have. Distance wise it is close to 2 miles from trailhead to Hanakapiai Beach. The trail has and elevation change up to 800 feet, then gradually descends to sea level. That gradual climb can be tough at times, but with the clean blue ocean on the right makes the pain go away. The trail is in excellent condition and there were contract workers making improvements along the way. Doing an Internet search and choosing photo’s is a nice way to view the scenery. Expect these 2 miles to take just over an hour, expect mud and please don’t try to stay clean. I started up the trail at 6:15, the sun had not come up and it was dark. Nothing was open along the way so I had no coffee to start the morning. That was a bummer.
Along the trail to the beach, there were sections of big bees buzzing around and pollinating various flowers, smaller waterfall’s with streams flowing across the trail and lots of mud. Half way to the beach, it got light out. Since this is on the North Side of the island, I did not actually see the sunrise. That happens over on the east side. No worries though, having light was good. About 45 minutes later, the trail transitioned to a downward angle to the beach. Once at the bottom I surveyed the surroundings.
I chose to make a river crossing in the water and not hop from rock to rock in order to get to the other side. Once there, the shoes came off, wrung out the socks, rested for a few minutes, suited up and continued to Hanakapiai Waterfall. This took just over an hour to go these additional 2 miles as the going was muddy, water crossings, though the trail not as steep. Along the way, there are bamboo groves, kukui trees, guava trees and I believe breadfruit trees also ginger. Lots of vegetation. It dawned on me, why after a hard rain, kukui nuts are all over the beaches. Reason is they are washed down these rivers. The tree canopy is fairly thick so GPS was dropping in and out, unless I held it in a certain position. GPS came in handy on the way back.
Words can’t describe Hanakapiai Fall’s. I chose not to proceed into the danger area as was indicated by a sign. It mentioned that falling rocks can be dangerous. Since those falling rocks have the potential to drop from 1000 feet, it’s a no brainer. After taking some photo’s and resting, I started back. This was pretty uneventful, took several photo’s, enjoyed the sights. By this time, there were more people on the trail. Because I started out before dawn, I was actually the second person to reach the falls that day. Leaving early does have it’s advantages as I had the remainder of the day left, and it was about 11:30. Oh, by that time, there will be no more parking at Ke’e Beach.
Tuesday, September 28, 2010
Remember to reset the trip data before starting
Nounou Mountain also known as Sleeping Giant
Ok, that last blog entry of Waipoo Falls was way too long for a normal blog. I suppose there was history involved, it was the first of three hikes and finally, I did not want to make a wrong turn. Sleeping Giant hike was fairly extreme in terms of elevation gain. This elevation gain is similar to the Chumash Trail. Sleeping Giant made me work for each of the 1300 feet of him. My concern for this hike was actually finding the parking area near the trailhead. Preparation and committing the surface street route to memory was essential. I parked at 6:00 A.M. and started at 6:15. The trailhead is very close to a residential area so I was very quiet. With gear and GPS on, I started up the trail.
Internet sites describe other established trails that intersect into the trail heading up sleeping giant. This is what I did not study up on and to make matters worse, the tree canopy caused GPS to loose signal. You guessed it, I did not make the turn and continued along the base of the mountain. Although the scenery was interesting, I was not gaining elevation as much as I expected. After 15 minutes, I halted in a clearing allowing GPS to acquire. Checked the Internet printout and consulted the book. None of this gave me a clear answer, though the Internet printout showed there was a trail along the mountains base. I figured I was on it. So, turned around and made best speed back the way I came, only with eyes on every detail.
There it was, the fork in the trail along with a small sign fastened to a galvanized pole at shin level. I did recall seeing that the first time, though in my rush to keep going, glazed over it and plowed forward. This time, I followed the sign, which indeed led up the hill, all 1300 feet of it. Chumash Trail was equally difficult, only here I took the liberty to find a soft spot and lay down to water and rest. I did this several times. It was still early, the birds were out, cool winds blowing, and this is all under a canopy of very tall pine and other very green trees. Continuing on, there are many openings that frame Wailua, Kapaa , and the ocean with lush green nature. Once on the top, maybe 1200 feet or so, it kind of levels out for a bit, then takes a sharp rise to a pair of covered picnic tables. I rested here for a good 15 minutes and took in the scenery then was surprise by a lady busting through some bushes on her daily walk! She gave me directions to Sleeping Giant’s head, which was just another 20 minutes or so. One wrong set, and it’s a long way down. I proceeded to that actual summit, approximately 1300 feet and took in this unreal view of Lihue, Wailua, Kapaa, and the ocean. Took several photos and video. It was just unreal. Then started down. By the way, this last part was done on hands and knees, I loved every minute.
I checked the time at the picnic tables to see how long it takes to get down. Proceeding on the decent, I guess folks were up and about as there were several couples and groups of folks making the acent. Stopped to chat just a bit and I found out several of the people live “down the hill” and it was their daily stroll. Can you imagine that. On the way down I tried to absorb as much of the nature as possible. At the base, I checked the time. It took 20 minutes. An hour up, 20 minutes down.
Monday, September 27, 2010
Waipoo Fall's
The Waipoo Fall’s hike was the first one in a series of three planned hikes while I was on The Garden Island. This waterfall is generally seasonal, thought during the dry season, there is normally some water, however not the volume as during the rainy season. I would think during the height of the rainy season, it would be not safe to venture beyond a certain part of the trail.
Waipoo Falls has significant personal history with me. While in scouting, we hiked to this waterfall a few times during which it felt like it was miles and miles through the deep Hawaiian jungle, threading ourselves through endless miles of thick ginger and thorny berry bushes. In reality, it was most likely 50 yards or so.
In terms of preparation, there was a lot of time spent doing Internet research including mapping, blogs, and hiking sites. I really did not want to make a wrong turn and find myself going in circles. There was no time for that.
So, I picked up Bill, a childhood friend and fellow Boy Scout, who lives on Oahu, at the Lihue airport early Friday morning around 6:20. From there, we proceeded directly to Waimea Canyon. We stopped at Kaumakani Bakery to pick up some breakfast and coffee. This bakery has been around forever. It was fairly still early in the morning as there were many high school kids waiting for the school bus. Bill and I had our quick breakfast and coffee, then got back on the road to Waimea Canyon, Kokee. Proceeding up to the canyon, we stopped at Panini’s lookout for a quick look at the Waimea and Kekaha plains. Niihau is out there in the distance, pretty blue Pacific Ocean, early morning trade winds. We stopped at all of the lookouts along the way to take in the sights, sounds, smells, snap a photo or two, then arrived at the departure point, Halemanu Road.
We elected to drive down Halemanu Road. There is ample parking just off the Waimea Canyon road. By driving down Halemanu, it did help to save some time. It was about ½ mile down a slight inclined and bumpy dirt road. In the rainy season, that would not be advised. A half mile later, we got to a point where there was a sign pointing to the direction of the trailhead. We parked off the dirt road, geared up and started off down another dirt road toward the actual trailhead. It was clearly marked and fairly impossible to go in the wrong direction. Still, the advance preparation was not in vain.
Approximately ¼ mile from where the car was parked, the dirt road opens into a large clearing with additional signs pointing the way to the Canyon and the Black Pipe trail. This clearing also serves as a junction point where footpath access to a lookout is possible. That particular footpath is the end point. It actually starts at Pu’u HiniHina lookout. Starting the hike from here would not add that much to the overall distance, you would just start from a different location, maybe with more outstanding views. From this clearing point forward, we were on a well-maintained and clearly marked trail. So, we proceeded following the Canyon/Black Pipe trail. This was late August and with little rain, there was a small amount of dust kicked up by normal walking. The morning was turning into mid-morning. There are no flat areas, either we are climbing a slight to moderate grade or descending a slight to moderate grade. In either direction, the amount of climb or descend is not that far, not even 50 - 100 yards before it starts in the other direction.
Trails have many forks. The first fork on the Canyon/Black Pipe trail is actually straight ahead. Proceeding straight will lead you to a canyon lookout. Going to the left is the Black Pipe/Canyon trail. Now, I did mark the waterfall location in my GPS. It never or rarely showed its distance being over 500 yards, a par 5 from the longest point. The winding paths were sure to make the distance a bit further. So, we proceeded left and continued up a slight grade then down into a valley with lots of tree cover canopy and kept on going. Still the trail is in good shape. There is no sounds except nature. One of the landmarks along the way is a deep stream with steep sides. It is too far down to touch the stream. Because of the tree canopy and denseness of the forest, this whole time we are actually getting closer to the canyon, but you really can’t tell. The trail continues up the other side of this valley, then twists through and straightens out to another sign which reads, Black Pipe trail (left) or Canyon Trail (right). The GPS pointed in the direction in-between at 200 or so yards. At this point the preparation came in handy. We stopped and discussed which way we should go. I recalled printing out trail literature specific to Waipoo Falls. I took it out to review it. Sure enough, the literature said, go right along the Canyon Trail. Chalk one up for preparation. Incidentally, the word “falls” was also scratched in the sign as well. Guess we got pointed to the correct direction.
Proceeding right, it gets kind of steep in a downward direction. Its just a few minutes going forward before the dense forest and tree canopy opens up and there is a 270 degree view of Waimea Canyon. From this point, it is a simple, maybe a 10 minute walk on a wonderful red/orange ridge that is easily visible with Internet mapping software. Of course, going too close to the edge and slipping will result in (at least) a 2000 foot plunge below. After 10 minutes of incredible views, the trail to the waterfall is just ahead on the left. From that point and the floor of the waterfall is perhaps a 100 foot or so elevation change (down). Not much further. So we proceeded forward and downward. There you land at a fork, a junction to upper and lower Waipoo Falls. Time has done nothing to this area.
Words will not do the rest of this blog justice. Upper Waipoo falls had a decent amount of water coming down and into the pool. It was easy and safe navigating and climbing around the large rocks. Not too slippery or other dangerous areas. Lower Waipoo does have a danger area which is an 800 foot drop. So we were careful not to get too close. We just hung out there a bit, talked about scouting, made some phone calls, and enjoyed and absorbed this special view.
Chumash Trail, conditioning hike #2
Chumash Trail conditioning hike #2 was just that, a conditioning hike. I had done this before but never took it all the way to the legendary flagpole at the top of Mugu Peak. The elevation change is 1300 feet up a very steep and narrow trail. This hike gave me a good idea of my overall physical condition (poor?) and how well my gear load would work while in Hawaii. The elevation change pushed me quite a bit, the weight of the gear was a non-issue. I had to stop many times to catch my breath and rest. The gear worked well, several year old hiking boots held up, long sleeve shirt as cover from the sun and sticky bushes. Overall, it took just over an hour to go approximately 2 miles up a steep grade to 1300 feet. This was a good experience and is a great conditioning hike. At the top of Mugu Peak, there is a great 360 degree view of the ocean, Laguna Peak, La Jolla valley and the other mountains viewed south. I also got a geocache while up here at the flag pole. Two people came by running this trail, both up and down. Not me.
Wednesday, September 22, 2010
La Jolla Valley, conditioning hike #1
This is a popular trail. Knowing how hot it can get in these canyons in early August, I chose to get going around 7:45 a.m. Once I got going, the gradual incline was not too bad and the physical part is was just enough so I could concentrate on my gear load (packup) situation, location of GPS unit, weight of the water, evaluation of my Nike hiking shoes (several years old but holding up). I wore a long sleeve cotton shirt to protect from the sun and bushes. From the above sign, (and not really knowing where I was going) I eventually ended up at the La Jolla walk-in camp. Turned around and came back.
What makes this trail, or can make it interesting is the seasonal waterfall. Since this is the dry season, there was no water. At this time, it was pretty much all dried up mossy stuff and a few various and random insects. From the placement of the rocks, when this is flowing, it could be a challenge to get across.
So, overall, the distance traveled was between 4 to 5 miles. That accounts for where I parked out on PCH, a wrong turn or two and not taking the most direct route to the walk-in camp.
How did the gear work out? I found that the 2 liters of water was enough, the weight of my gear load was a non-issue. I never felt weighted down. The long sleeve shirt worked ok, it offered protection from the sun and bushes. My Nike hiking shoes held up well, lots of grip, the tread pattern did not accumulate any noticeable amounts of debris.
The way I fastened the Garmin Venture GPS to a lanyard (on one end) then to a D-ring (on the other end), worked out well. It is long enough to drape over a shoulder, and undraped to be hand held while navigating or getting close to a cache. There was initial preparation as this trail was evaluated by using the Internet to view satellite imagery, topographic maps and other informational sources like blogs, state park information, and other personal web sites.
Conditioning hike #1 complete, gear checkout passes the hike test.
What I pack and why
Hiking Introduction
I have not always been a hiker. I suppose my motivation for hiking is part the physical part, part GPS data collection and of course the feeling of reward once achieving a goal. The rewards are found on a hopefully well maintained trail, in the great outdoors, with all the sights and sounds that mother nature has to offer. Some positive team building experiences were while attending military NCO academies on a land navigation courses, finding waypoints using only a map, compass and pace count. So a good hike fills that need. In recent history, my longest hike has been an 8 mile round trip, and the shortest about 2 mile round trip. In both cases I’ve packed 2 liters of water. The shorter hike, 2 liters is too much, longer hike (8 miler RT) I ran out ½ to the end. Lesson learned, good thing I was at the end. Another liter will not add that much more weight.